The Religious Stuff..& all things are possible except skiing through a revolving door

January 24, 2008

TRUTH IN WORSHIP

Filed under: Christianity, Discussion, Free Will, thoughts — sidgi @ 11:55 am

This article is also on the Discussion forum here 

Jehovah, the God of the Bible is called the God of truth. (Psa. 31:5) Jesus said anyone who would worship Him, Jehovah, in an approved manner, would worship with spirit and truth. (John 4:23,24) God values truth; it would follow that anyone who would worship Him, would also hold truth as something to be highly esteemed. We find ourselves in a world that doesn’t value truth to the extent that meets God’s requirements. Most often it is held as a relative value; relative to comfort, relative to gain, relative to loss, relative to the acquisition or loss of power, relative to inconvenience, in fact this particular family has a lot of relatives. There are white lies, black lies, little lies, big lies, fibs, once again a large gathering of relatives.

It would be hoped that in the one professing to be a Christian, worshiping the True God, truth would be held in the highest esteem possible, especially regarding their worship. Unfortunately that isn’t so. There are many religions claiming to worship the True God today. All of them explain Him and worship Him differently, and so all of them can’t possibly have the truth about God, or at the very least, can’t be promoting the truth about God. If they haven’t taken the time to find out just what that truth is, and combine the wisdom that would have had to be acquired over the years, then the conclusion has to be drawn that they must value their own ideas more than they do Gods. Otherwise they would have waited for Him to prove to them what His ideas were.

(Proverbs 13:10) 10 By presumptuousness one only causes a struggle, but with those consulting together there is wisdom. . .

(Romans 10:1-3) 10 Brothers, the goodwill of my heart and my supplication to God for them are, indeed, for their salvation. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; 3 for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

When someone takes something, and promotes it as God’s truth, without first making absolutely sure that God has actually taken that position, that is called presumptuousness. When someone explains God in a way that doesn’t take into account all of his attributes; in a way that actually doesn’t present Him as He wishes to be seen, that is a misrepresentation; a lie. That individual, or those individuals have placed themselves in a position contrary to Gods stated interests. Often people are more concerned with how a certain belief about God makes them feel, than they are about whether it is actually the truth.

One such belief is the trinity doctrine. For one thing it is extra-Biblical, it doesn’t have a place in the Bible. While many try to use certain verses to support their belief, the Bible itself doesn’t teach it. Someone might ask how this teaching makes certain ones comfortable, since it is so convoluted, so un-understandable in it’s description. (Athenasian Creed) For one thing, the very fact that it isn’t understandable, gives people the comfort that they can’t possibly understand God, and so how could they be expected to have a personal relationship, and be personally accountable to Him. They seek the comfort of ignorance and letting someone else have the authority to set the limits of their conscience. They don’t seem to understand that ignorance is a choice, not a condition. If they choose to not find out the truth, it is the same as deliberate disobedience.

Another belief that is common is the teaching that God will torment humans in a burning hell forever. Jehovah has presented Himself as a God of love, a God of Justice, a God of mercy. In their zeal to control the behavior of their followers, they have misrepresented Jehovah in this regard, painting Him as unjust, unmerciful, unbalanced, in His God-ship. The very thing Satan intimated to Eve in his temptation of her. NO not that God would torment her in a fiery hell, but that He was being unfair in His dealings with her. That He was withholding something from her unjustly, that would improve her life, her existence; same principal, different circumstance. In both cases God’s qualities of justice, fairness, balanced treatment of His creation is being called into question.

(Genesis 3:4-5) 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”

Is it important to make sure you represent God in a way that is both clear and can be supported by His teachings in the Bible, and His dealings with mankind?

(Matthew 7:21-23) 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

Or perhaps it is the subtle attraction of mysticism, that feeling of special privilege that only they, and those that they associate with, can have this special knowledge and, because of that, they too are something special, and all they had to do was “give themselves to the Lord” and bingo their future was assured.

(2 Thessalonians 2:8-12) . . .. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Whatever the reason, it isn’t truth as revealed by God’s word. Paul made this statement to the Corinthians…

(1 Corinthians 4:6) . . .”Do not go beyond the things that are written,” in order that YOU may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other. . .

There was a situation that had developed in Corinth that required him to write those words. It was a specific circumstance dealing with things that were not compatible with the humility required to serve God properly. The principal of not going beyond the things written, though, goes beyond that specific application.

(Jeremiah 10:23) . . .I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

(Ecclesiastes 5:1-2) 5 Guard your feet whenever you go to the house of the [true] God; and let there be a drawing near to hear, rather than to give a sacrifice as the stupid ones do, for they are not aware of doing what is bad. 2 Do not hurry yourself as regards your mouth; and as for your heart, let it not be hasty to bring forth a word before the [true] God. For the [true] God is in the heavens but you are on the earth. That is why your words should prove to be few.

(2 Peter 3:15-16) 15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote YOU, 16 speaking about these things as he does also in all [his] letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

It takes a certain humility; to let things, and people, and Jesus, and God, be what they are. No more; and certainly no less, in the case of Jesus and God. Wanting to appear to have special knowledge about something is always a temptation. Wanting to be considered wise and understanding can also be a pitfall. Seeming to have a special relationship with God, Jesus, important or well-known people, certain knowledge, even in subtle, underlying ways, is an impediment to knowledge of the truth, because your understanding of things will always be filtered through your view of things. A person’s priority about how things are understood, is the measure of their modesty and humility. Everyone strives to be at his or her best, but not everyone is satisfied with being just that, in others eyes. It is a symptom of imperfection. It can also be a character flaw; depending on how much influence it has in someone’s understanding of things, and behavior.

(John 5:39-40) 39 “YOU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. 40 And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life.

Unfortunately most won’t take advantage of the opportunity to know truth. It isn’t that they don’t have the opportunity, just that they undervalue it.

(Proverbs 17:16) 16 Why is it that there is in the hand of a stupid one the price to acquire wisdom, when he has no heart?

(Proverbs 16:1) 16 To earthling man belong the arrangings of the heart, but from Jehovah is the answer of the tongue.

In the end no one can claim that they were misled. As Prov. 17:16 says that even someone stupid has the capability to acquire true wisdom, it’s just that his or her heart isn’t in it. If they are misled, it is because they don’t value truth enough to search for it, they don’t value it enough, to not settle for less. Prov. 16:1 shows that God has given man free will, but in the end, Jehovah will hold him accountable.

Does everyone have the opportunity to please god? The answer has to be yes; otherwise God is not just. Do we know the limits of God’s mercy? In some cases yes; in most cases no. What God will, in the end, decide to forgive is not known, all we can know is that it will take the form of perfect, Godly, love, justice, and mercy.

September 14, 2007

God knows everything, Where does that leave Free Will?

Filed under: Christianity, Free Will, Religion — Admin Staff @ 10:27 am

Foreknowledge Compatible with Free Will

Some predestinarians state that men are free moral agents, yet others  deny it. Do not the following statements from their publication rob of real meaning their contention that men are free to will good

“Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation.”

But when God intervenes to convert an otherwise helpless sinner he “enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good”. God promises to “give unto all those that are ordained unto life, his Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe”. So those not ordained have no free will or ability to believe.

Similarly, God is “renewing and powerfully determining their wills” in order to make men “willing and able” to answer his call. Even after starting in the right way the “perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election”. And where is the free will of individuals to be found in their statement that God is “governing all his creatures; ordering them, and all their actions”? If God did “unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass”, and to show his sovereign power over some did “ordain them to dishonor and wrath”, and to show his grace toward others did predestinate them to life “without any foresight of faith or good works”, then how can it be argued that there is no “violence offered to the will of the creatures”?

Yet such is the caliber of predestinarian logic. Little wonder they give up reasoning on the matter and refer to their doctrine as “this high mystery of predestination”!

From all eternity God is supposed to have decreed whatsoever takes place, and to have fixed the destiny of all men and angels to either everlasting life or everlasting death, yet neither making use of his foreknowledge to do it nor violating the free will of any creature in doing it. To fit into such a scheme God would have to create each individual in such a way that it would automatically do just what he had predestined for it to do. This puts the predestinarians in the same doctrinal boat with the Pharisees, about whom Josephus wrote: “When they determine that all things are done by fate, they do not take away the freedom from men of acting as they think fit; since their notion is, that it hath pleased God to make a temperament, whereby what he wills is done, but so that the will of man can act virtuously or viciously.” From the foregoing it is evident that predestinarians pay only lip service to individual free will, while doctrinally denying it in all practical respects.

HOW GOD MOLDS US

Some will contend that God God does shape man in such a way as to force him into a certain course of conduct, doing violence to the creature’s freedom of will or choice, and thus making things work out according to the divine predestination of matters. They cite the text that speaks of God as the great Potter and men as helpless clay to be molded as he sees fit. Also they point to the time when God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, which hardness brought Pharaoh into destruction in the Red sea. Can these cases be harmonized with individual freedom of will? Yes, and by way of laying a foundation for solid answers consider some points relative to changing or molding anew the human mind.

Men know much about the mind, but much more they do not know. Yet a mixture of fact and theory gives this basic view of the mind’s function. When light enters the eye it is changed into electricity by the time it reaches the gray matter of the brain’s cerebral cortex. When sound enters the ear it reaches the gray matter as electrical impulses. Similarly messages come to the brain from the senses of smelling and tasting and feeling, reaching the brain’s cortex as electrical currents. Inside the cortex of gray matter is the white matter of the brain, and through this the gray matter sends electrical messages, to connect up with other cells or cell groups in other sections of the gray matter. Thus when the vision section sees danger it speeds messages to the motor section to inaugurate necessary muscular action, either for fight or for flight. So in all other mental processes the gray matter communicates with its various parts, doing so by setting up circuits through the white matter.

Every thought, every action is recorded as an electrical path through the white matter. If it is an old idea or frequent act it uses the previously made circuit, strengthening and entrenching it still more. That is why repetition fixes thoughts firmly in mind, and repeated actions become habitual. They come easy thereafter, and are hard to remove. New thoughts and new deeds require the setting up of new circuits, and that is more difficult. At birth the brain of the human babe is almost blank, only a few circuits being there, such as the instinct to suck and a few other basic patterns necessary for survival. But it is not a near blank for long. The five senses pour in their messages, and as the years pass an appalling maze of circuits accumulate-more, it is estimated by scientists, than all the hookups of telephone wires, exchanges and receivers in existence. One scientist estimated that “the human brain has sufficient storage capacity to remember fifty times as much information as is contained in the seven million volumes of the Library of Congress”.

If we did not possess free will, but instead our course were fixed for us, we would not have the power of molding our minds according to our wishes, according to the things we chose to take into the brain.

We would be more like creatures of instinct, like lower animals. Their brains are not so blank as humans’ at birth; most of their circuits are already there, and they can add but few thereafter. They come nearer to being predestinated at birth than do men. They primarily follow God-given instinct. Man, on the other hand, makes up his own mind. And because each one does it differently, each one is a separate individual, a distinct personality. It is a person’s thoughts and acts that make him what he is. God God so states: “Just as he hath thought in his own mind, so he is.” (Prov. 23:7, Ro) From the heart, which frequently stands for the mind, come words and acts. (Matt. 12:34; 15:19) So what a person thinks, says and does is largely governed by the mind. To change himself, to remold himself, he must change his thinking; for as he thinks, so is he.

Because men in this old dying world think and speak and act wrong, because such unbelievers are vessels of wrath headed for destruction, and because they must be remolded into vessels of glory to God, the vital command to them is: “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” (John 3:36; Rom. 12:2,)

If they make their minds over they are changed persons; for as they think, so are they. They must let the old circuits put into their brains by the schemes and propagandas, the lusts and immoralities of the old world fade out through disuse, and replace them with new circuits built up by the right thinking and acting recommended by God. If so, they will be remolded into a new personality: “You should put away the old personality which conforms to your former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; . . . you should be made new in the force actuating your mind, and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loving-kindness.” “Strip off the old personality with its practices, and clothe yourselves with the new personality which through accurate knowledge is being renewed according to the image of the one who created it.”-Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:9, 10,

So it is by taking in accurate knowledge about God and Christ that human creatures made of dust or clay can be remolded, changed from vessels of wrath to vessels fit for divine mercy. (John 17:3) On the other hand, this information, instead of remolding men born under wrath and condemnation into vessels of glory, hardens some even more as vessels of wrath, even driving them to murder. (John 8:37-45; Acts 7:54-60; 2 Tim. 3: 8) And this testimony that either hardens vessels of wrath or remolds them into vessels fit for mercy, where is it found? In God’s Word, the Bible. So through his Word God either makes persons more stubbornly wicked or changes them into his glorious servants, and this without any forcing of the creature, but rather it is as the creature himself wills to react. It is like a person that receives a letter from a certain man and which makes the person change his mind, and as a result the person says, “That man made me change my mind.” Yet there was no forcing involved; the person changed of his own free will.

It is with this view of matters that Romans 9:21-24 ) should be considered: “Or has not the potter the right to make out of one part of his earth a vessel for honor, and out of another a vessel for shame?

22 What if God, desiring to let his wrath and his power be seen, for a long time put up with the vessels of wrath which were ready for destruction:

23 And to make clear the wealth of his glory to vessels of mercy, which he had before made ready for glory,

24 Even us, who were marked out by him, not only from the Jews, but from the Gentiles? Does not God have a right to declare his message to all men taken from the same place, the dust of earth, and allow it to shape them for or against him, according to their own freewill reactions to its declaration? Certainly, and beforehand he indicated in his Word that one class would be hardened as vessels of wrath and another class would be flexible in their thinking when hearing the truth and welcome it and make their minds over in accord with its impact, thereby becoming vessels of mercy. That the individual himself can, by his own course in harmony with God’s will, make himself into a “vessel for an honorable use” is specifically stated at 2 Timothy 2:20-22 ): “Now in a large house there are vessels not only of gold and silver but also of wood and earthenware, and some for an honorable purpose but others for a purpose lacking honor. If, therefore, anyone keeps clear of the latter ones, he will be a vessel for an honorable purpose, sanctified, useful to his owner, prepared for every good work. So, flee from the desires incidental to youth, but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, along with those who call upon the Lord out of a clean heart.”

To say God forces men to be a good or bad vessel is unscriptural. He does mold us through his Word, for good if we will let him.

Now to consider the controversial text wherein God said: “I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you.” (Ex. 7:3, 4) Now God did not actually harden the heart of Pharaoh so that Pharaoh lost his free will in the matter. His heart hardened because of the message declared to him by Moses and Aaron. It was what caused him to react in hard stubbornness and anger. But since the message Moses and Aaron declared was really God’s message, the account says God hardened his heart. The repeated extension of God’s mercy to him by the lifting of plague after plague did not soften the Egyptian ruler, but as is usual in the case of bullies and tyrants this forbearance only made Pharaoh more intolerable, brought to the fore all the more his bullying characteristics. At Exodus 8:15 the result of relief is shown: “When Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart.” And again after the lifting of one of the plagues: “Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also.” (Ex. 8:32) Also 1 Samuel 6:6 states: “The Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts.” Does it not say Pharaoh hardened his own heart? Yes, because that was actually what happened. It only says God did it because that was how Pharaoh reacted to God’s message. Mercy shown to such arrogant men only serves to let them store up more wrath against themselves. (Rom. 2:4, 5) It is not unusual for wicked men to interpret God’s long-suffering as a sign of weakness and thus become more set in their evil ways, thinking the time of reckoning will never come: “Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.” (Eccl. 8:11) Pharaoh’s heart was so set in him.

(God foreknew that Pharaoh would refuse permission for the Israelites to leave “except by a strong hand” (Ex 3:19, 20), and he foreordained the plague resulting in the death of the firstborn. (Ex 4:22, 23) The apostle Paul’s discussion of God’s dealings with Pharaoh is often incorrectly understood to mean that God arbitrarily hardens the heart of individuals according to his foreordained purpose, without regard for the individual’s prior inclination, or heart attitude. (Ro 9:14-1 8) Likewise, according to many translations, God advised Moses that he would “harden [Pharaoh's] heart.” (Ex 4:21; compare Ex 9:12; 10:1, 27.)

However, some translations render the Hebrew account to read that God “let [Pharaoh's] heart wax bold” (Ro); “let [Pharaoh's] heart become obstinate.” In support of such rendering, the appendix to Rotherham’s translation shows that in Hebrew the occasion or permission of an event is often presented as if it were the cause of the event, and that “even positive commands are occasionally to be accepted as meaning no more than permission.” Thus at Exodus 1:17 the original Hebrew text literally says that the midwives “caused the male children to live,” whereas in reality they permitted them to live by refraining from putting them to death. After quoting Hebrew scholars M. M. Kalisch, H. F. W. Gesenius, and B. Davies in support, Rotherham states that the Hebrew sense of the texts involving Pharaoh is that “God permitted Pharaoh to harden his own heart-spared him-gave him the opportunity, the occasion, of working out the wickedness that was in him. That is all.”-The Emphasised Bible, appendix, p. 919; compare Isa 10:5-7.

Corroborating this understanding is the fact that the record definitely shows that Pharaoh himself “hardened his heart.” (Ex 8:15, 32, KJ; “made his heart unresponsive,”) He thus exercised his own will and followed his own stubborn inclination, the results of which inclination God accurately foresaw and predicted. The repeated opportunities given him by God obliged Pharaoh to make decisions, and in doing so he became hardened in his attitude. (Compare Ec 8:11, 12.) As the apostle Paul shows by quoting Exodus 9:16, God allowed the matter to develop in this way to the full length of ten plagues in order to make manifest his own power and cause his name to be made known earth wide.-Ro 9:17, 18.)

The charge that such a view of the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is private interpretation cannot be proved, because the Bible itself so interprets a similar expression. At Isaiah 6:10 God tells Isaiah: “Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.” Now, God did not mean for Isaiah to actually go and fatten their hearts and stop up their ears and close their eyes to forestall any repentance; but he was predicting that that would be the effect of the message that Isaiah had been commanded to go and tell the people, that the people themselves would show closed eyes and unhearing ears and fatty hearts, that they would not repent and turn to God for healing spiritually. The message declared made these rebellious ones unreceptive because it did not please them, and since Isaiah delivered it he was said to have done these things to them. But that they did it to themselves is shown by no less an authority than Jesus himself, for in quoting this prophecy as having fulfillment upon rebellious ones in his day he said: “The heart of this people has grown thick, and with their ears they have heard with annoyance, and they have shut their eyes.” Years later Paul quoted it in the same words. Though in Isaiah’s prophecy it speaks of Isaiah as doing it, both Jesus and Paul show the people themselves did it, and not actually Isaiah.-Matt. 13:14, 15; Acts 28:25-27,

Another instance of this is where God’s servants are commanded to “keep making straight paths for your feet”, and yet elsewhere it is said concerning God: “He will make straight your paths.” (Prov. 3:6, AT; Heb. 12:13,) Who makes the paths straight?

Predestinarians say it is God, not men, and try to prove it by quoting Jeremiah 10:23: “It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” Man in himself cannot do it, but God will do it for him, not through predestination, but through His Word: “How can a young man keep his path pure? By heeding thy word.” “Thy word is a lamp to my feet, and a light on my path.” (Ps. 119:9, 105, AT) It is you that must of your own free will “keep making straight paths for your feet”, but since you can do it only by heeding God’s Word it is also correct to say God “will make straight your paths”, by means of his Word.

FOREKNOWLEDGE NO VIOLATION OF FREE WILL

God God can penetrate the innermost thoughts of the mind, and foresee the course that will be taken by not only individuals but also classes. (1 Sam. 16:7; Eph. 3:20; Heb. 4:12) He created the mind that directs man, knows its intricate operation, and can instantly detect the bent of man’s mind and know what that bent of mind will eventually lead to. He took just such a measure of men’s minds before the Noachian flood, and found them unreformable. (Gen. 6:5, AT)

Before the Israelites entered Canaan God gave testimony against them for future reference, to show he foreknew what their mental disposition would lead them to and that they had been forewarned: “I know what their temperament will lead to, even now, before I bring them into the land, which I promised them on oath.” (Deut. 31:21, AT

Foreknowledge, without certain prior conditions existing by which to determine the logical result to be expected, amounts to the same thing as predestination. Predestinarians disagree, for they say predestination is not based on any foreseen works of the individuals involved, as that would make destiny-fixing dependent on future works, and that they will not accept. Yet others will contend that God’s foreknowledge that some individuals in view of certain inward conditions will fail, forces them to fail in order that the divine foreknowledge be proved right. Or, for that matter, that God’s foreknowledge that the majority will perish at Armageddon rules out any widespread conversion to godliness. Their analysis fails to reach the root of the matter.

The point is, the mere exercise of his foreknowledge based on certain existing conditions is not what makes the foreseen happen. His exercise of it is a gracious service to men, for it makes possible the warnings in his Word.

To illustrate how the mere exercise of such conditioned foreknowledge does not of itself destroy independent action, consider examples of the limited use human creatures make of it. An astronomer can foretell when a certain comet is going to streak through the sky, or when there will be an eclipse of the sun or moon. Does his foreknowledge of the comet’s visit or the eclipse make such things happen? An engineer may know bridges, and see a weak brace, and know that when a heavy freight train comes along the brace will give way and the bridge collapse. Does his mere knowledge of the weakness make the brace break and the bridge fall? A machinist may use X ray to see a hidden flaw within a steel part of a machine and thus know the part will break under the strain of operation. But would not the part break regardless of whether the machinist knew the weakness or not? We know the sun will rise tomorrow, but it is not our knowing that fact that makes it rise.

Or take illustrations of animate things. We know that a cat will play with a mouse and a dog will chase a rabbit. We know that because of our knowledge of cats and dogs. But our mere knowing it does not bring it about. If we were totally ignorant of the ways of cats and dogs when in the presence of mice and rabbits, the tormenting play and the frantic chase would still take place. You may know someone who is an alcoholic, and know that when he begs money from someone he is going to spend it for liquor. But your foreknowledge of that does not make him do it. When you have close friends and learn their mannerisms or mental tendencies or peculiarities, you often know in advance what they will do under certain circumstances. But your foreknowledge due to insight into their personalities does not force them to so act, does it? They still act of their own free will, unmaneuvered and uncoerced by your foreknowledge, do they not? You may know how the quarreling nations of East and West will react under certain conditions, but because of that you would not think it just for you to be blamed for the squabbles, would you?

So why blame God for what his foreknowledge reveals to him? He knows what is in the human mind, how it works, and is aware of its bent toward good or evil. But just that he can read what is in a man’s mind and see the way it will go does not make him responsible for what is in that mind, any more than we are responsible for what we may read in a book. It is the one who wrote the book that is responsible for its contents, and it is likewise the individual that harbors improper thoughts that is responsible for them. The thought is not put there by God, any more than we put the printed thought in the book we read. And just as we can either read or refrain from reading the book, so God can either look into or refrain from looking into our mind, can either foresee the course our mind will direct us into or withhold such knowledge from himself. In any event, we are created free moral agents and use that freedom as we choose.

ADAM MADE “VERY GOOD”

Some, still stubbornly seeking to shift blame to God, criticize him for making man with free moral agency, saying if he had not done so man could never have gone wrong. Their reasoning is very shallow. God created man for His pleasure, and faithful men do give pleasure to God. (Ps. 35:27; 147:11; 149:4; Rev. 4:11) And it is the faculty of free will in man that greatly contributes to God’s pleasure.

This is illustrated in man’s affairs, who was given dominion over the earth as God holds it over the universe. Man can make a mechanical dog, wind it up, and watch it hop around, knowing exactly what it will do. It is void of will, restricted by mechanical design. It may entertain for a time, but is not nearly as enjoyable as a live dog. The live dog has a certain measure of choice, and when we exercise dominion over it and train it we derive pleasure from it. The dog may be trained to do tricks, or render valuable service, such as that performed by a sheep dog. We are pleased because the dog does not obey us just because it has to, can do no differently. It gives us pleasure when it obeys us out of free choice, thus showing attachment to us. But if it rebels against our training, such as sheep dogs sometimes do by turning killer, we have no pleasure in it and are forced to destroy it because it misused its power of choice.

In the same way man’s proper use of free will brings pleasure to God. God had many creations without free will, such as the stars and planets, which mechanically obey his laws of motion and stay in their assigned orbits; and even lower animals, and especially insects, are rather mechanical in action, since they are governed largely by instinct instead of reason. Man was to be something different, something higher, something suitable to put over the rest of earthly creation to exercise proper dominion over it, as a faithful servant of God. To make him “very good” for such an assignment God made man in God’s image, with qualities of justice, love, wisdom and power. (Gen. 1:26-31) A mechanical man, which is what one without free will would amount to, might have power, but would lack the other divine attributes. Justice implies the ability to choose between right and wrong. Wisdom involves among other things the intelligence needed to make the right choice. Love is shown by obedience to the commands of the Creator, and must be freely and cheerfully given to be genuine and a pleasure to the recipient. (1 John 5:3) God gave man these qualities, and the instructions for their proper use, and even added a conscience to guide when doubts as to right or wrong arose. (Rom. 2:12-16) But if the man rebels he is destroyed, just as is the sheep dog that turns killer. Yes, God could have made a robot instead of a man, but it would have given him no more pleasure than a mechanical dog gives us. So just as we prefer live dogs over mechanical ones, so God wanted live men with free moral agency instead of mechanical men. And, incidentally, since God created all things, including men, for his pleasure; and since he takes no pleasure in the death of men, he would hardly have predestinated many to die before he made them. Such creations would have brought him no pleasure, and would be a violation of his expressed principle of creating only for his pleasure.-Ezek. 18:23, 32; 33:11.

Those who complain about being made with free will would not have it otherwise. They do not want to be a machine, or even a living insect guided only by instinct, responding in a mechanical way to environment, devoid of intelligence, unable to make decisions or cope with unanticipated changes in conditions. As men they would not welcome partial removal of their free will, such as happens when men go to prison, having little say as to where they go, what they do, how they live, and so forth. Even persons of Satan’s world are hemmed in and their free will is circumscribed to an extent. They are enslaved by a rotten system, their minds shaped by demonistic propaganda, spiritually blinded by false religions, physically bound down to an office desk or factory assembly line, with noses kept to irksome grindstones to meet the obligations of time payments and other accumulated responsibilities under a system that regiments humanity to facilitate the exploitation thereof. Men fight and die for freedom. They want freedom of worship now, but some object because God gave it to Adam and Eve. That pair misused their freedom; so some say they should never have had it. Many men misuse freedom of worship today; is that reason to deny it to all?

We are free moral agents, thank God for that. We are not motorcars at whose wheel God sits and steers in the right or wrong way, guiding us beyond our power to control. He does not run us by some celestial remote-control system as men can drive cars or sail ships or fly planes by remote control. We are not predestinated to go this way or that, like puppets with strings attached and which God sits around and pulls to suit his whim. He made us men, not puppets, not machines. Instead of fretting over it, quibbling with God about it, we should busy ourselves in using it rightly, in harmony with divine requirements, and thereby assure ourselves of everlasting life.

When God pronounced his earthly creation, including man, “very good” it meant perfect: “His work is perfect.” (Deut. 32:4) Yet some say, If Adam and Eve had been perfect they would not have wrongly used their freedom of will and choice. But not necessarily so. A machine may be well designed, of flawless materials, of excellent workmanship, and accompanied by clear instructions as to the kind of fuel that will suitably run it, and warnings against using inferior fuels. Now, if the wrong fuel is deliberately used in defiance of the manufacturer’s careful instructions and the machine is fouled up and ruined, can the maker be blamed for producing an inferior machine? Not rightly so. It was the same with Adam and Eve. Their minds were perfect. Their bodies were perfect. Their provided food for mind and body was perfect. They were clearly and perfectly instructed as to what fuel to take in and what to reject. Then Satan through the serpent suggested a change in fuel, saying it would give them more power, give them a lift, make them like gods. So Eve took in the wrong fuel and got fouled up. She gave some to Adam and he was fouled up. Both were beyond repair; they were deliberate in their disobedience to instructions. Of them it is true: “God made mankind right, but they have sought out many villainies!” -Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:1-6; Eccl. 7:29, Fenton.

If Adam and Eve could not have used their free moral agency wrongly, it would not have been really free. God put them to a simple test to see how they would use it, to determine their holiness. It was a question of holiness, not of physical perfection. God knew they were perfect, and if that meant inability to fall away he would never have posed the test, knowing that due to their perfection they could not fail. The covering cherub was perfect until iniquity was found in him. (Ezek. 28:15) His perfection did not prevent his fall. His lack of holiness brought on his fall. Today some men choose to do right and serve God in holiness, but that does not make them perfect. Conversely, Adam and Eve chose to do wrong and be unholy, but that did not mean they were imperfect to begin with. It just means men are free moral agents, able to choose for themselves, and their right use of this ability is not a matter of perfection but of holiness. So the test in Eden was not to measure perfection or imperfection, but was to demonstrate holiness or unholiness.

Clay is a good symbol, for to shape into fine vessels it must be the right kind of clay, ground fine with no coarseness or hard lumps remaining, saturated with water, easily molded, able to hold its form and not sag out of shape, and not crack when burnt in the kiln. Similarly, persons must be of the right kind of soil, not rough or coarse in conduct nor with hard or stubborn streaks in them, but be saturated with the water of truth, fine-textured, smooth, pliable, meek, easily shaped to allow for thorough remodeling after the image of Christ, and then never drift back or collapse to the former shape or crack under the fiery tests of persecution sure to come. (Matt. 13:23; Heb. 10:39; 1 Pet. 2:21; 4:12) God, through his Word declared by his witnesses, will mold both vessels of wrath and vessels for glory.

Of this all may be sure. We will allow God to either reshape us or make us shapeless. We will become vessels of mercy and conform to the molding influences of his Word, or we will harden as vessels of wrath and be reduced to formless rubble by his King’s iron rod. (Ps. 2:6-9) The question before each individual is, Do we choose to remain a vessel of wrath, or to reform as a vessel of mercy? We are free moral agents empowered to answer as we choose, unhindered by predestination, uncoerced by foreknowledge.

September 13, 2007

If God knows our free will choices, do we still have free will?

Filed under: Christianity, Free Will, Predestination, Religion — Admin Staff @ 9:36 am

by Matthew J. Slick

I’ve always been puzzled by the notion held by some people that if God knows what we are going to choose in the future, then we don’t really have free will.  They say that if God knows we are going to make a certain “free will” choice, then when it is time for us to make that choice, because God knows what we are going to choose, we are not really free to make a different choice and God’s foreknowledge means we cannot have free will.  Quite honestly, I do not see this as being a problem at all.  Let’s work with the idea that we are free will creatures and that God knows all things, even our future choices.  Furthermore, let’s define free will in the Open Theist sense as the ability to make equal choices between options, regardless of a person’s sinful nature.1  Given these conditions, are God’s omniscience and our free will incompatible as the Open Theists claim?

Analogy

By analogy, knowing what will happen does not mean that we are preventing or causing that thing to happen.  The sun will rise tomorrow.  I am not causing it to rise nor am I preventing it from rising by knowing that it will happen.  Likewise, if I put a bowl of ice-cream and a bowl of cauliflower in front of my child, I know for a fact which one is chosen, the ice cream.  My knowing it ahead of time does not restrict my child from making a free choice when the time comes.  My child is free to make a choice and knowing the choice has no effect upon her when she makes it.

Logic

Logically, God knowing what we are going to do does not mean that we can’t do something else.  It means that God simply knows what we have chosen to do ahead of time.  Our freedom is not restricted by God’s foreknowledge; our freedom is simply realized ahead of time by God.  In this, our natural ability to make another choice has not been removed anymore than my choice of what to write inside the parenthesis (hello) was removed by God who knew I would put the word “hello” in the parentheses before the universe was made.  Before typing the word “hello,” I pondered which word to write.  My pondering was my doing and the choice was mine.  How then was I somehow restricted in freedom when choosing what to write if God knew what I was going to do?  No matter what choice we freely make can be known by God and His knowing it doesn’t mean we aren’t making a free choice.

Time

Part of the issue here is the nature of time.  If the future exists for God even as the present does, then God is consistently in all places at all times and is not restricted by time.  This would mean that time was not a part of His nature to which God is subject, and that God is not a linear entity; that is, it would mean that God is not restricted to operating in our time realm and is not restricted to the present only.  If God is not restricted to existence in the present, our present, then the future is known by God because God indwells the future as well as the present (and the past).  This would mean that our future choices, as free as they are, are simply known by God.  Again, our ability to choose is not altered or lessened by God existing in the future an knowing what we freely choose.  It just means that God can see what we will freely choose — because that is what we freely choose — and know what it is.

Part of the problem in Open Theism is that by restricting God to the present only, His existence is defined in such a way as to imply that time is part of His nature and that He is restricted to it.  The question is whether or not this is logical as well as biblical. 

Scripture

Scripturally, God inhabits eternity.  Psalm 90:2 says, “Before the mountains were born, or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God.”  But this verses, an others, do not declare that God lives inside or outside of time.  Rather, the Bible tells us that God is eternal.  We can, however, note that the Bible teaches that God has no beginning or end.  This is not definitive, but we may be able to conclude that since time is that non-spatial, continuous succession of events from the past, through the present, and into the future, and that since the word “beginning” denotes a relationship to and in time, and since God has no beginning, that time is not applicable to God’s nature.  In other words, God has no beginning and since “beginning” deals with an event in time, God is outside of time.

Nevertheless, the scriptures are not definitive on this issue and we can only conclude what it does say; namely, that God is eternal, without beginning, without end, and that He can accurately and precisely predict what will happen.

“As for you, O king, while on your bed your thoughts turned to what would take place in the future; and He who reveals mysteries has made known to you what will take place,” (Dan. 2:29).

So, in relation to our free will and God’s predictive ability, there is no biblical reason to assert that God’s foreknowledge negates our freedom.

 

Free Will for thinking Christians

Filed under: Christianity, Free Will, Predestination, Religion — Admin Staff @ 9:33 am


 

     God is the beginning and end. Infinite and eternal. He has always existed, self sustaining, requiring nothing for his existence. He is the Creator of all things, without being a created being himself.

God created the earth and the universe related to the earth. The building of the planets, the systems, the seasons, the tidal effects, the humans who inhabit planet earth.

God also designed and created the imposition of “time” for the Earthly inhabitants. Time is a God created concept and limitation set for the earth and mankind. It is a continuum succession of eventualities with a series of starts from the past to the present going on to the future. It is a functioning relationship to encase progressions. Without progressions existing, time does not exist.

The dictates of logic imply that if God is the creator of time, then he is not bound by the physical laws of his creation. His nature and being are free to use time in the past present and future as he see fit. Mankind is bound under the creative physics of time to live only in the present with the past being a memory and the future not experienced.

Prior to the creation of the universe, God existed. Time did not. When he decided to make the earth and universes, he put the continuum of time in place, but he operates outside of the time process. Earthly restraints of time mean nothing to the Creator. He can be in the past and the future and the present as he sees fit, no constraints equals complete control. God exists in our existence and out of it because of his creatorship. Our minds would not comprehend the enormity of things outside of our earthly understanding in God creations.

God understands our future because our unknown future is an existing present for God. He is not restricted by clocks or hours or years, he made it and can do with it what he wants.

So is it logical that God knows all things? Yes! It also means that he knows the choices we as humans make without interfering in a free will choice. Now, man has a free will. It is not a libertine free will as some suggest. The Bible makes it very plain that sin has captured all of mankind, and as such his will is to a large extent controlled by the nature of sin. Free will comes into the choice as to whether he will serve God or serve himself and the Devil.

Would God choose to ignore the future events? I submit that God looks at the millions of choices made in the future and has lined up his will with knowledge of the outcome of the effects of choices on people as it affects his Divine will. His will WILL be done. His will is unchanging and his knowledge is all encompassing, Yet his love for man still allows for free will to serve him or not.

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